In conversation with Mary Gauthier

“I was adopted when I was about a year old. My adopted parents tried, but their marriage was doomed. Music saved my life. I couldn’t relate to things in Baton Rouge, but I found songs that spoke to me.”

Mary Gauthier was born in 1962 to a mother she never knew and left in St Vincent’s Women and Infants Asylum, New Orleans. She was later adopted when she was a year old by an Italian Catholic couple from Thibodaux, Louisiana. The intervening years saw her struggle to cope. A runaway at the age of 15, Mary stole her adoptive parents’ car to escape Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and found her first shelter among addicts and drag queens.

The next several years were spent in drug rehabilitation, halfway houses, and living with friends. She spent her 18th birthday in jail, and what followed were years of drug and alcohol abuse. But somehow during this time she managed to hold down jobs and had the determination to attend the Cambridge School of Culinary Arts in Massachusetts. She opened her own Cajun restaurant, Dixie Kitchen (which inspired her debut album’s title), in Boston. Mary ran the restaurant for eleven years. On opening night, July 12, 1990, she was arrested for drunk driving. She has been sober ever since.

The one advantage of coming to music at a comparatively late age is that the songwriter will have led a life that she can draw on for her songs. Mary Gauthier has certainly led a varied life, and it shows in the depth of her writing.

I recently caught up with Mary at her home in Nashville…

Having been abandoned as a baby, have you ever thought about having children?

Never not even once. I’m a workaholic, I get pleasure and joy from work. I don’t even have a plant in my house. I’m dedicated to my time consuming job, the poor little kid would be an abandoned baby like me.

Your 2010 album The Foundling, tells the story — sometimes in stark honesty — of the search for your birth mother. She didn’t want to meet with you. Were you able to find some kind of emotional closure through writing the album?

It was hard. Really hard. Honestly? Im still trying to figure out how to deal with it. I cope with most of my pain by writing about it and getting clarity through songwriting. I write down my emotions and I sing them and it helps me to understand and cope. I bring the songs in to the world and other people say ‘oh my god that happened to me’ . That helps me a lot to know that I’m not alone with what’s gone on.

But closure, no, I can’t have closure with her walking around, and me walking around, and us not being able to meet each other. The most I can have is compassion and I can try to find a way to let it be what it is. But closure is not possible… because it’s still open.

You wrote your first song when you were 35 — what was that song?

I don’t remember. I had got myself into serious things that were just terrible. And so I got sober at 27 after I got arrested for a drunk driving incident. After a couple of years words started coming and I think I may have been a little younger than 35, but not a lot younger, when I started writing songs. But the first ones, I don’t really remember what they were. The process, I had to learn how to do it and it culminated in a first little record called Dixie Kitchen, that’s the first batch of songs that I kept. But there’s only one song on that record that I still play and that’s called Goddamn HIV, I think that’s the one song off that record that points me in the direction of where I want to go as a writer, it has my voice in there . Only I could have written that song.

Do you find it a cathartic process, the songwriting.

Well cathartic is not the word, just getting the emotions out, a release that doesn’t do anything other than release. What I’m hoping for is to go to the next stage which is to connect. I want the stories to connect and my job as a writer is to go beyond catharsis into a magical place that connects us through a human experience.

What comes to you first, is it the words or is it the music?

It’s both, they come together. Once I get an idea I start trying to find music that sounds like what I feel and so I strum it out and talk it out and hum it and never write words to songs without my guitar in my hand. I don’t write music and try and come back and put words in it. I can’t write that way, I’m not that good. I have to do it together, I don’t know how to impose one on top of the other. They come together.

Have you reached a place where you can live with your demons?

Yes, I think so, I’ve learnt a lot about how to do that, music is helpful, meditation is helpful, compassion. I’ve found my way with compassion from my mothers but letting go of the anger, part of that is just getting older. Recovery makes life and love possible.

Do you fear being taken back to unhappy places whilst singing or performing or is that a major part of your performance?

The songs bring me on a journey, just like they bring the audience on a journey. I now can tell the story from the point of view of the person I used to be and not have to become that person again. It’s almost like looking back on someone else at a certain point. If you think of yourself ten years ago you’re not that woman any more and so you understand that women’s story intimately but you can’t, even if you wanted to, be that person you were ten years ago . So that’s kind of how it works. There’s a myth that Hank Williams died so young because of the songs he had to sing night after night. I don’t think so. I think he died so young because he was an alcoholic and an addict. I don’t think you relive this stuff, I think that you can experience the connection with the person that you were but you don’t become the person that you were by singing these songs. You can’t . It’s not possible.

I’ve read an article where you speak about the Catholic church. Do you have a strong faith?

I do, I have, well, I have to work on it every day. I don’t know if it’s religion at all. But I have to find a way every day to connect to something bigger than me because if I don’t I’m going to turn myself into God or I’m going to turn some other person into God and that’s no good. I don’t know if I even like the word God, I kind of like the word spirit or love or something benevolent that has us in it’s care and that includes me. But I don’t wake up feeling that way, I have to work at it. It’s not simple and it’s not easy, it’s like any other relationship I think, I have to invest myself in it and really work at it.

Does that ever fly in the face of your sexuality or cause friction in any part of your life having that faith?

No, no at all. My God made me this way and made all people the way they are. Not at all, I actually see myself as completely whole in that area. My sexuality, being a lesbian, is utterably a part of me. And my spirituality. My sexuality and my spirituality are intertwined. It’s a scared part of me. I would never love a God that didn’t create or support that and bless that in it’s creation.

It seems logical to say that your life has shaped your music but is that true — are there other influences that you recognise?

My life has shaped my music but my joy, the passions, my struggles and my experiences all were part of it. I’m currently writing songs with veterans, soldiers, and I’m really enjoying that process but those aren’t my stories, it’s their stories, I’m unequipped to tell them. It’s intense, I can tell you that, them telling you what transpired over there in the Middle East and they feel abandoned . They come home and there’s nobody to talk to. It’s really hard and I think my life experiences have given me the capacity to sit with someone else who is in pain and not be afraid of their pain.

Do you identify with them at all?

Yes, I cant believe how much I love them. I love them so much. I just see incredible character, courage and strength of their beliefs. A lot of these people live by the service, by sacrifice, by spiritual principles and I really admire that.

There is something incredible that happens when you pair soldiers and songwriters. The stories are the things that connect us. Their stories are unbelievably powerful. They taught me something, that songs can heal, they are powerful medicine. Songs have saved my life. I have literally pulled myself out of hell by writing songs.

Who had an influence on you musically?

The songwriters/storytellers Leonard Cohen,Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Joni Mitchell and not forgetting Lucinda Williams, Willy Guthrie, Hank Williams, Willie Nelson and the Outlaws . I like people who say something in their songs. Tom Waits, I’m a huge fan of Tom.

Who had an influence on you personally?

John Prine. I’ve had the opportunity to tour with him on several occasions. He is a hero of mine. We both live in Nashville and I get to hang around with him sometimes. I admire him deeply and his songs speak to so may people.To have a personal relationship with him is incredible.

Who do you think or know you have influenced ? Bob Dylan speaks highly of you.

That’s a tough one, I’m not sure. Every now and then someone comes along and says nice things about me and that’s just amazing.

Is peer respect important?

It means the world. I have been on stage with my friends who happen to be great artists. A standing ovation at the Grand Ole Opry. I’ll take that with me forever.

You tell stories with your words, almost painting pictures, but your lyrics can flip the meaning at the start of a sentence to the antithesis of it. The one that sticks in mind for me is ‘drink will leave you thirsty, fire will leave you cold’ . Do you think that mirrors your life in some way?

Yes, it does. It’s been my experience anyway, the more I drink the more I want to drink. It made me thirsty and moving towards the fire that was just a metaphor for passion and lust.The closer I got to that the colder it felt. So maybe it’s a declaration that making lovely things a priority becomes an addiction and if I don’t find something other than that I’m doomed. It’s a big song for me, there’s a lot in there. It’s been a real challenge. It’s an adult song. It’s not a kids song.

Some people would say you have been exceptionally strong through a lot of your life and experiences — would you describe yourself as strong?

No. Im resilient. But Im incredibly weak actually.Ive gotten my strength through surrendering and not through any big victories. I have found my strength on my knees, I haven’t stuck a flag on the moon or anything by any means. I’m not that kind of strong.

You must be asked so many times to give advice to up and coming musicians but what would you tell your younger self now, would you do anything differently?

No, I wouldn’t do anything differently. I needed to do everything I did to become who I am today. I’m pretty at peace today with who I am. What I would say is to stay true to yourself. Be brave, because these songs are going to ask you to say things that are frightening to say and can make you vulnerable. And if you sing you have to be more vulnerable, not less vulnerable.The amount of vulnerability required is profound and it can’t be done without courage. And so I tell people you have to be brave, you have to expect to be terrified and when you’re terrified you have to do it anyway and then courage is a matter of proceeding in spite of your fear.

You say that you have found songs that spoke to you, when talking about music, would you share any of those songs or is that something that you don’t really want to discuss?

Interestingly I’m glad you asked that question. I’m in the process of writing a book and it’s going to be called ‘Why Songs Matter’. I’m going to pick ten songs that matter deeply to me, and I’m going to write about those songs in relation to my own life and what they mean to me. I’m really going to town with that very question turning it in to a book. There’s several songs that carry like a family heirloom, they are so precious to us that we can’t imagine a life without them — if you’re a fan of song, you know. And most people are. Music is everywhere. People like music for big reasons, not just entertainment.

What is your opinion of the music industry today?

Even though I’m in Nashville I don’t spend much time in the music industry. I think that essentially what I do is a small business that I own and I run and I have an international career. I play all over the world but it’s a small business it’s not plugged in to the industry at all any more. It looks pretty broken from where I sit but I don’t have the authority to say because I’m not in it anymore.

You have your own record label. Do you feel you have compete autonomy with your work within that label

Oh yes.

So there are advantages and disadvantages of having a record deal?

The advantages are you have an entire team of people to help sell your record. That is really important to have that team in place because it is very hard to sell a record. So when you get people who are experienced selling records, it’s very helpful to have them. But the disadvantage is that you have to sign away a lot of the things that are important, like artistic freedom, and you give them all the money to move your career ahead . So it’s a deal in some ways with the devil. You make a deal with the devil and in the end most of us find that the price that we pay is pretty high.

I have never said or done anything that I didn’t believe in and I’ve worked with people who have allowed me to be me. I think I’ve been lucky in that sense but I know that what I have to offer is quite simple . There’s no way to really cash in on me, I’m not being asked to sell out, there is nothing to sell out. All I’ve ever had is this blessing to be able to put words together in an honest way that resonates with people.

You are your own unique brand and you’ve certainly carved your own niche especially with your pretty raw vocals, self analysis, which tends to baulk most of the trends and the only comparisons I can really think of seem to be male counterparts, as in Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen.. How do you feel being one of the only women who actually achieves that?

I don’t think about it. What I think about is what Im working on now . I don’t look back very much, I don’t take stock very much.. Im writing a book, Im working with soldiers, moving in the direction of what I’m in. I mean, one day I may sit back and look back and see what happened but Im not even very in touch with what happened. Im so busy in my work and focused in my work that keeps me sane and I try and stay in the present and maybe look forward but not to forward and I don’t spend much time at all looking back . When I do I find that it slows me down and as a human I have to accept what Ive done and how my behaviours have affected other people and I have to take responsibility if Ive hurt someone and reflect on what it is that I need to change , it’s part if why I don’t look back.

You’ve achieved so may things, awards and honours, what has been the most satisfying for you personally or professionally?

I don’t know.Tonight I’m playing at the Grand Ole Opry, and I’ve played the Opry I think six times now and it started with this record Trouble and Love. Marty Stuart started me at there and took me to play with him in 2005 and that was cool. This is the sixth time and I don’t walk on stage with the rainbow flag but I’m gay and I look gay and I don’t look like the other women there, and I don’t sing like the other women there . I’m not different in a way that’s bad and it’s not good it’s just that I am different and they’ve embraced me. I’m proud because now other people can come behind me and the door is open . It’s not just for me . For me it’s cool but that’s not enough, also there may be a couple of young gay kids that think ‘Oh I like country songs but I can’t because I’m gay.’ Well Mary Gauthier has played the Opry six times, they keep having her back and look at her, she’s one of us and maybe I can do it. So maybe it gives hope.

You seem to enjoy talking to your audience so much and have a great rapport with them do you love live performances?

I love live performances . I went to the National Film Festival yesterday and I saw a documentary on Hal Holbrook who performed as Mark Twain and has for sixty years and Hal was abandoned as a kid . His parents just left him and my God I connected with him. And what he’s doing on stage is connecting intimately with the audience. I think there’s something in this orphan-ness that drives us to do that. To go on stage night after night and at whatever place that will have us and connect. I think that if you look at the bios of people that do this, the one man one woman show, so many of us were orphaned.

Turn the curse into a blessing and the blessings already there and you discover it. And the need to connect will drive the work and the work is the important way of being in the world, it affects people profoundly and in some ways you’re doing work that’s beyond your abilities . There’s a spirit that’s living through it that’s not from you.

How do you relax?

Hot yoga for 90 minutes. I challenge myself with that and I love the way it’s transforming my mind and my body. I hike, we have beautiful trails outside of Nashville

and they’re pretty rigorous steep climbs, five mile trails, and I read constantly. My house, everywhere you go you are tripping over books. I’m an avid reader. And I continue to love food so I have dinner parties, I dine with friends . Nashville is a boom town right now, there are so many great new restaurants to explore. I love food on the road. Those are my big passions right there.

You have been called a troubadour — the original troubadours between the 11th and 13th centuries in France — were ‘love em and leave em’ types …. would this ever have been something that has ever been addressed to you?

(laughs) Yes, when I was young that’s how I was, but I’m not young anymore. Im 53 and I’ve been single now for a little over three years and I’m not romantically involved with anyone. I’ve put that whole thing on hold and have put all of that energy into my own spirituality and I have found it has been a very important part of my spiritual growth is to slow down that part of myself because it never really served me . There was a lot of fun in there and a lot of hurt in there, as you can tell from listening to the songs . So that’s something in your 20’s and 30’s but it’s starting to look bad in your 40’s and in your 50’s. I think it’s pitiful. (laughing) I don’t want to look pitiful.

And finally what is next for you?

The soldier songs Im really in love with. The book is hard, it has taken me a year to write a single chapter. Book writing for me is hard because I’m used to short form, making it long is challenging and I want to give this book everything I’ve got. I’m touring Canada, Northern Ireland, I’m teaching a workshop in Italy and Nashville and playing a bunch of folk festivals this summer from Canada to Colorado to California. I’m booked to December and I’m very happy about that. If I don’t slow down I’ll never write the damned book so I’ve got to slow down at some point but I still feel like it’s the gift that keeps coming, I’ve got to take the opportunity to perform everywhere . I’m at my prime, I don’t want to slow down. Im going to do it, I’ve got to find a way to keep going.

(first published cover story Gaia magazine)